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eFishery’s Gibran Huzaifah on Turning Local Problems into a Global Winner

August 10, 2023Interviewaquatech, eFishery, fishtech, gibran huzaifah, mastermind, mastermind-en, unicornKristin Siagian

Gibran Huzaifah was only a university student when he started a small business with a few catfish ponds. As the business grew, he managed to address several issues and find the opportunity to create solutions based on these problems. In 2013, Gibran, and Chrisna Aditya decided to execute their idea through eFishery.

The early days were quite challenging, the company needs to build the product, and introduce it, while simultaneously educating people about it. In order to achieve growth, eFishery must expand geographically, deploy teams on the ground, establish points, and build community centers. The approach feels more complex than it seems. They continuously and patiently nurture the market.

In the first half of 2023, the company announced that it has netted $200 million in Series D funding. It has entitled them to be Indonesia’s 15th unicorn and the first one in aquaculture or aquatech/fishtech. The company has transformed to be an all-in-one solution for the fish industry. They offer solutions from upstream to downstream, helping fish farmers to improve efficiency and effectiveness in their business.

DailySocial has an opportunity to discuss with the founder himself, Gibran Huzaifah, and absorb various insights. Our team has translates the interview below.

How do you see the Indonesian startup industry landscape today, compared to when you first founded eFishery?

When eFishery was founded in 2013, the startup industry was a real niche. It’s not even part of a public conversation. The competition was quite small and the players are very limited. The early unicorns were still in the early stage of funding. The VC industry was beginning to rise. Also, there were quite limited talents in the tech and digital industry.

In terms of aquaculture or fishtech, I think we’re the only player back then, even globally. Over the past ten years, there are more diverse innovations in this area, some worked and some failed. However, the ecosystem is getting mature nowadays, there are an estimated 50 to 60 players in the market, and each of them is still growing and offering various solutions in the fishtech industry.

Who was Gibran Huzaifah before eFishery? How was your first encounter with the startup industry?

I used to have catfish ponds, it’s a small business I started when I was a university student. In fact, I have no background in tech at all. However, I see the problem and the opportunity, and I discussed it with fellow business players in the industry. Then, the idea is finally come up and I decided to create the prototype myself, and it worked.

Also, the tech sector is rapidly growing at that time. There is some development in the consumer tech and inflection point. I used to create the prototype based on SMS with a Blackberry device. However, a year has changed many things. We used to only sell tech–based tools for fish cultivation until we finally see the huge potential and tried to ride the wave toward the tech solution.

Gibran with fellow undergraduates at Bandung Institute of Technology

Have you always wanted to be an entrepreneur? What do you think is the most essential quality for entrepreneurs, especially in this digital era?

First, they need to start with the problem, make sure it’s big enough, and focus on how to solve it. If we start with the problem, there must be a solution that sticks and eventually grows. Second, a continuous learning mentality. As an entrepreneur, in this dynamic industry, there is a possibility that the company will outgrow its founder, it’s best if we can learn and grow faster in order to keep up.

In terms of leadership, we need to have a vision and make sure to build a team that aligns with it. The company’s growth doesn’t rely solely on the founders. The most important thing is to hire the right person, deliver understandable direction, and build a winning team.

What really inspired you to create eFishery? What makes you believe this could be a big thing then?

When I created eFishery, what I did was basically solve problems I knew from my experience in fish cultivation. I hadn’t thought much of the industry, but I do care about the community. We did market validation just to know how big is the potential market. What makes us consistent? Because we focused on the problems and built solutions that reflect them, then we see how big is the market.

At that time, we already know that Indonesia held the biggest potential fish market, however, we’re only listed second in production. In terms of the fish market, Indonesia has big potential, but when executed right, I say it can be the biggest. As we start with something that has the biggest innate potential, eventually it will get bigger.

I created eFishery knowing many people underestimated me. At that time, poultry or other agricultural products were seen as more promising. However, I see the industry not only for its current potential but in the long run. I have a vision that in the future, people will eventually shift from catching fish to cultivating it.

When you created eFishery, do you have any experience in the startup industry? What kind of challenges do you find hardest to overcome?

The most challenging time is in the early days, especially to acquire customers. They’re not familiar with automation, they didn’t even use a smartphone. The business wasn’t savvy back then. We spent about the first 3 to 4 years educating the market. People might see eFishery grow rapidly in the last three years because they didn’t see the early struggle. It takes patience and dedication to consistently educate the market for 7 years.

We build the product, introduce it, then educate people about it. In order to achieve growth, we must expand geographically, deploy teams on the ground, establish points, and build community centers. The approach is complex. The growth model is not as simple as creating a platform and advertising it. It is geographically and culturally challenging.

eFishery has officially become the latest Indonesian unicorn. How do you feel? Do you think this kind of status can boost the growth of your business?

Honestly, I’m not that excited about the status. In fact, the funding is more likely to be a milestone we can celebrate. There aren’t many startups that can make it up here, and we did it with consistent hard work, innovation, and growth. We’ve been trying to create something, and the growth is finally visible.

However, I always told my team to beware of distractions, as the spotlight can blind your eyes and prevent you from seeing clearly. Unicorn never was the point, never was the goal. Just because we achieve some kind of status that is considered important, we shouldn’t lose the sense of what is really important.

7 years of educating the market and still counting/eFishery

The status only represents the valuation, and valuation is not the real representation of the company’s value. When we talk about funding and potential partners, that is when I’m most excited. There are many things to elaborate on, possible things. We also have plans to pursue an IPO, which has become a milestone target for the next few years.

Let’s elaborate more about your plans with the funding. How would you expand eFishery’s ecosystem? And how do you think it is going to impact the whole agri/aquaculture industry?

First, we’ll be focusing on expanding our ecosystem. We currently have around 150 thousand farmers, and we’re targeting to reach 1 million by 2025. For 7 years we are already focused on the upstream, currently, we are developing a downstream market channel. We already have farmers, lock the supply, and now it’s time to expand downstream. We need to reach the downstream market and create bigger value for farmers, therefore improving their standard of living.

Aside from that, the company is looking to expand outside the country. We care to replicate what we are doing here in other countries, currently, we have eyes for India. The country has a similar market, although they are bigger for the shrimp market. The characteristics of its farmers are also similar, independent, semi-intensive, and small. What’s interesting is India’s market is more concentrated in one are while Indonesia is a country with thousands of islands.

I find that many experienced startup founders are shifting to the investment industry. Are you getting intrigued with the investment scene and will follow their lead?

Personally, I invest in the idea that I think I would do myself if my plate is empty. It’s not some kind of diversification from my current company, but I’d likely back certain ideas that I want to see the realization of its solution. The thing is, even though when eFishery is getting mature and I started to think about starting something new, I wouldn’t be a full-time investor. I will always be a founder.

As a founder, how do you see the tech winter has impacted the startup ecosystem?

Basically, there are things that triggered this tech winter, such as the surging interest rate. Macro economics become the scapegoat. Investors might prefer lending money that invest to companies with high returns but also high risk. However, the root cause is somehow the unsustainable growth of the business, distracted by different metrics, and many growth models turn out to be short-term. Therefore, the fundamental values are nowhere to be seen.

In the near future, when you have time to start something new, what do you think will be the next big thing?

I’m definitely biased. Agriculture becomes the first thing on my list since its problem is still very huge, also its solutions. When we have the right business model and product, the agriculture business can be a big thing. In general, there are also many things to do from upstream to downstream.

I also see some problems that maybe should’ve been solved by the government but it didn’t optimize. For example, there are some companies in waste management that are getting the spotlight. Also, there are emerging ideas that can draw interest in Indonesia, such as carbon credit. I think it can partly solve the environment and social local problems. Also, MSMEs are still a big issue, as no sustainable growth models that focused on the real problem are being developed to date.

Shinta Nurfauzia on Her Entrepreneurial Journey: Strong Work Ethic Take People Places

May 9, 2023English, Interviewentrepreneurship, healthy consumer space, Lemonilo, mastermind-en, Shinta Nurfauzia, woman entrepreneurKristin Siagian

This article is a part of DailySocial’s Mastermind Series, featuring innovators and leaders in Indonesia’s tech industry sharing their stories and point of view.

Healthy consumer space is getting more crowded. According to Deloitte Consumer Insights, people have demonstrated an overall shift towards greater health consciousness. In the food category, healthiness and nutritional value come in as the biggest three considerations after price and taste. Lemonilo is one of the pioneers in this area.

Shinta Nurfauzia is one of Lemonilo’s co-founders. She believes that Indonesia has the opportunity and quality to become a better country. She completed her formal education in business law from the University of Indonesia and Harvard Law School. After quite some time working in the legal field, she ended up more excited with her side job as an entrepreneur.

During her education years as well as her working days, Shinta is a very passionate person. She started her first business early at 14 with The Pancake Co. and comeBAGtome. Her last job before Lemonilo was consulting for the Indonesian government while being a founder of the fashion brand Hood. When she was a lawyer, she was named the most promising Indonesian female lawyer back in 2012.

All of these achievements are not just come knocking at her door. She worked very hard for that. She sets a high standard, a strong work ethic, and a full dedication to everything that she worked for. She’s an inspiration to her surroundings, especially for women who still think that they are not good enough.

DailySocial had an opportunity to dig deeper into her journey as an entrepreneur and a woman in tech. Here’s the excerpt of our conversation.

Who is Shinta Nurfauzia before Lemonilo?

When Lemonilo was founded in 2016, I was a student, a lawyer, and a consultant. However, I’ve always had this entrepreneurship mindset. Philosophically speaking, I have a dream for Indonesia to become a better country. At that time, I was thinking that health is one way to achieve that goal. Why? Because in order to become a productive country, one should have a healthy population.

Therefore, I want to create something with this angle. Before Lemonilo, there was Konsula, a healthtech startup with a mission to improve health access for the Indonesian people. I learned a lot from co-founding Konsula before finally deciding to take another approach to contribute to the development of healthy consumer space in this country with Lemonilo.

What really inspires you to create Lemonilo?

Lemonilo started out as an e-commerce platform. We look for healthy food products, set the health standard, and market the product. At that time, healthy food products are not as mainstream as today. In the process, we found out that Indonesian people are very addicted to instant noodles yet also complain about the unhealthy side of it.

Based on this problem statement, we’d come to a solution that Indonesian people need healthy instant noodles intake. Despite all of the things that we are scared of a pack of instant noodles, we still need it. There is a giant need gap there. That is when we started to produce our own healthy instant noodles. Furthermore, we expand to several products, such as snacks and spices.

In terms of creating a product, there are a few steps. First, the ideation. As we are a data-driven company, all of our ideas come from data first as we’ve seen what the market needs. Then, we conduct some research to hear what people really say about the problem in order to create a solution. We have our internal product innovation team, involving seasoned technologists and scientists to do the whole production cycle. To date, we have around 300 employees.

You have an academic background in legal yet you manage to build a startup for healthy products, how do you see these two things related?

The basic output of being a student is having a work ethic and dedication. As a lawyer, these two things are non-negotiable. Aside from that, there is legal thinking. During my days working in the legal field, legal people have the capacity and comprehensive understanding of risk management. And it is essential for business.

Basically, they are very related in several layers. In terms of stress level, as a person working in the legal field or being an entrepreneur, I have my share of sleepless nights. We cannot escape our responsibility and it is overwhelming sometimes. Also, when it comes to legal, everything is a red alert. However, I encourage myself to put the maximum effort into both roles.

During your journey with Lemonilo, what was the biggest lesson learned from running a business in the tech industry?

For me, the biggest challenge as a founder is finding the right product market fit. You need to know your consumer better and do it right in order to pass this stage. Many startups are giving away free stuff and offering big sales just to attract consumers. However, when the price back to normal, not everyone would stay.

Also, many people saw these startups with revenues and a series of funding thinking that they are already found the product market fit. The fact is nothing can guarantee product market fit, it is a continuous journey. One of the elements of product market fit is the product is well-accepted and paid accordingly to the effort and original price. This is one of the biggest lessons I’ve learned from Konsula.

Lemonilo caters to quite a niche market. What makes you believe Lemonilo can be a sustainable business?

When you say ‘niche’, what kind of standard that you use? Is it niche to create a product that is also sold by a number of giant players? In 2016 when there are not many healthy products discovered, Lemonilo offers a niche product. Today, the fact that there are at least 4 big companies producing healthy instant noodles and claiming a similar concept with Lemonilo proves that we are doing something right.

In terms of growth, we are right on track. As the number one healthy player in Indonesia, according to Nielsen, Lemonilo has two responsibilities. First, to strengthen its position amongst massive competitors entering the healthy consumer space. Second, expanding the healthy consumer space itself.

I personally love competition. In fact, the more player the bigger the scene. Lemonilo also invites other brands to involve in this initiative. Because this is a group effort to create a healthier FMCG space, Lemonilo cannot do this alone.

How do you manage to keep the company stay in line with the mission?

In Lemonilo we have a culture called SBD. As a company, we have to serve others. Aside from generating income, we are here to create a better life for many people. In order to do what we aim to do, there is no blueprint. Therefore, we need to understand the FMCG market thoroughly.

We need to learn but at the same time, we need to unlearn to find the Lemonilo way. Therefore, we need to be free in Lemonilo way. Finally, we need to do what is right. Despite all the competition and the uncertainty, we need to keep our integrity tight to do what is right.

You are one of only a few well-known women leaders in this country. How do you see the tech industry treating women as a worker or women as a leader?

For the tech industry and any industry in general, WE CAN DO BETTER. For example, how many women founders have received funding from VC? It’s still a very small number. Lots of people still think that women are not as capable as men and that it is hard to trust women with money, while research found that women are likely better with responsibility. So, why are we scared to give women the chance?

A global research also showed that gender equality can boost economic growth and stability. I hereby speaking not only in the context of women in tech, but also in a general way. A small thing mentioned by Sheryl Sandberg in her book Lean In about why is it necessary for pregnant women to have special parking spots. Biologically, women and men are different, it will be unfair to justify only one standard.

In fact, lifting women does not necessarily mean stepping on men. I think women’s position in the tech industry is still not equal. Companies still have to look for a way to balance this. As we see it based on the economic value, there are monetary and opportunity losses in the imbalance.

As a woman entrepreneur, what would you say to the other woman out there trying to make it into the entrepreneur world?

First, you are not alone. Believe in yourself that as a woman–despite your environment–you can achieve great things. Second, in order to achieve your dream, make sure to find your tribe. In fact, who can understand women’s problems better than fellow women?

I’d like to share Najwa Shihab’s example of having a tribe. It is simply by creating a small support group of women where the only purpose is to flatter each other. It’s not at all fake, but in a world where things are difficult, it’s nice to have your support group.

George Hendrata Turns Tiket.com Business Around with Strong Company Culture

February 13, 2023English, Interviewdjarum group, George Hendrata, mastermind-en, tiket.com, travelKristin Siagian

This article is a part of DailySocial’s Mastermind Series, featuring innovators and leaders in Indonesia’s tech industry sharing their stories and point of view.

The tourism sector is one of the worst affected by the impacts of COVID-19, blocking the economies, livelihoods, public services, and opportunities on all continents. As Indonesia’s President Joko Widodo announced an end to the public activity restrictions, this will significantly affect the travel industry, including OTAs regaining their dominant position within travel distribution.

George Hendrata has an educational background in tech from Columbia University and MBA from Harvard Business School. He has working experience in several multinational companies, including Motorola & Boston Consulting Group, and became the Director of Djarum’s Business Diversification before taking the opportunity with tiket.com. With his persistent character and creative mind, George turns tiket.com around and makes it blossom.

Nobody expects that the travel sector would be a bridge to disseminate something horrible such as coronavirus disease. As much as we cannot believe it, Covid-19 has been staying in this country for over three years now. However, due to hard work across sectors, we can at least say that the pandemic has been handled. It is now the time for the travel industry to rise again.

During six years with George, the t-fam (tiket.com employees) has grown significantly and managed to survive this pandemic without doing any layoffs to the core team. At the end of last year, tiket.com along with Blibli and Ranch Market announced a unified omnichannel ecosystem called blibli-tiket. The initial public offering (IPO) is said to be the 5th largest listing ever on the IDX, and the 2nd largest last year.

Alongside his current position as the CEO of tiket.com, George also likes to mentor and invest in companies. He said it gives him an opportunity to share ideas, learn new things, help entrepreneurs, and contribute to the economy.

DailySocial had the opportunity to have an exclusive interview with George Hendrata and discuss his career journey and leadership. Below is the complete version of his story.

I’m not sure to say that we are past the pandemic. However, the pandemic has transformed many lives and significantly affect some industries, including the OTA business. I want to know how are things going on in the OTA sector nowadays, especially tiket.com?

At that time (the first case in China), we still think that we were immune to this. When it finally happened, we were expecting the revenue would get to zero. Many customers asked for a refund and reschedule. Obviously, we have to focus on our people, that is our consumers, our partners, and our t-fam. We reinforced our Customer Service team, seconded by other teams in order to take care of all the issues. Because of this focus on people, we gained market share even during the pandemic.

Our travel partners, such as airlines, tour operators, and accommodations are deeply affected. Their businesses went down significantly. Not long after, they had to lay off. Even though business was slow, we kept trying to promote our partners. Since our customers were not able to explore international destinations, they started to explore their own backyards. Many visited Labuan Bajo or Raja Ampat for the first time. Fortunately, during the pandemic, hotel room occupancy was higher than expected, due to people doing staycation and staying during quarantine.

During the crisis, we have to creatively look for opportunities. Due to covid, our customers prefer to travel with their families, stay outdoors, and avoid common areas. Hence, we launched alternative accommodation (villas) category called tiketHomes.

Currently, tiket.com has 3.6 million accommodation listings in total, including 2.2 million tiketHomes listings. The pandemic also hits hard on the economy. People may have reduced buying power when it comes to travel. Hence we try to solve this issue by offering Tiket Paylater. Now, our customers can enjoy purchasing travel products and installments.

PPKM restrictions have shut down offline attractions. We experimented with offering online attractions. To our surprise, it turned out that people not only like to scream when they go to theme parks but also in their own homes while watching online horror live shows; and customers are willing to pay for this. 2022 is getting off to a great start with all the offline concerts, events & attractions coming back. To date, the offline and online combination has created almost 8 times the volume compared to before the pandemic.

To date, the travel & lifestyle sector recovery has been amazing. There is no longer PPKM in the 2nd quarter of 2022. By September 2022, based on national data, the flight industry has recovered around 65% by seats; domestic recovery is about 70% and international recovery is about 55%In accommodations, the occupancy rate has reached the pre-pandemic level. Travel in the 4th quarter of 2022 has gone very strong. This makes 2022 the best year ever at tiket.com, in terms of bookings.

Originally, Tiket.com was founded in 2011. An interesting fact, you joined the OTA later in 2017. Who are you before the CEO of tiket.com?

I graduated from Columbia University and majored in electrical engineering in VLSI (Very Large Scale Integrated circuit). I used to work for a mobile phone company, Motorola, before I finished my MBA from Harvard Business School and joined Boston Consulting Group. Djarum Group wanted to diversify the business, and that attracted me to join the business development/diversification team as Business Development Director.

We have been blessed to run successful businesses in FMCG, consumer electronics, financial services, telecom infrastructure, natural resources, and tech. By being exposed to these businesses, I realized that my strength is in either starting up or turning around. With tiket.com, we saw an opportunity to turn around the business, and I took it.

I led the due diligence for tiket.com and fell in love with the founders. As we interviewed our travel partners, it was clear that there is a space to compete with the current market leaders. They would like to have a better relationship with online travel agents. On the other side, customers also need options. Hence I believe that we should go ahead.

How was your early days with tiket.com? How did you take the succession?

One of the issues with companies that have been stagnating is that typically the positive energy & spirit is no longer there. Typically the star employees have left as well. The first thing I did was to speak to the employees. We were around 250 people with about 60 people in the tech team.

I interviewed them one by one, asking simple fundamental questions. After the assessment, I asked, “Do you believe that we can be number one?”. The ones who said yes, became part of tiket 2.0 The ones who said no left, as they didn’t find the place right for them. We grew our tech from about 60 people to about 500 people in 5 years. tiket.com currently has around 1200 employees.

Today’s tech companies are fraught with layoff news. However, (so far) tiket.com has managed to survive the pandemic without any. What kind of insights can you share about this current issue?

We call our employees the t-fam. Yes, we did not do any layoffs. We focus on strengthening our core team and downsizing only the outsourced workers.

However, it all comes down to the hiring process. We are being prudent in our hiring, by being careful and selective. We are doing selective hiring to complete our manpower planning, instead of massive hiring. Therefore, in the downturn, we did not have to downsize as much. To build an effective team, company values & culture is very important. This depends on what the company is all about.

Also, it depends on what the leaders and management are like. Company culture can’t differ much from the leaders’ culture. If the leaders do not embody the intended company culture, the culture won’t stick. tiket.com is a startup that disrupts the travel space. It needs people who are “hungry” to meet the unmet needs. To find areas where you can disrupt, and where you can provide value for customers.

Also, we need to be “agile” as customers’ demands will be changing over time like in factories, where arguably the most important asset is the machine, and the most important asset for start-ups is its people. Therefore, we need to be “people-oriented” Also, a dream is only a dream if doesn’t get implemented. In order to implement well, we need to have a “performance orientation” to monitor whether products are being launched well and timely.

Lastly, we need people to join us not only with their arms and legs but also with their hearts and minds. For that, you have to be a unique “you”, so you can be creative in your approach we put the initials together, and it will form the word “HAPPY”, that is the culture of tiket.com. This is what glues us together. When people are engaged, they are more passionate in delivering apps that people love. That is our vision.

In October 2022, Blibli, tiket.com, and Ranch Market announced a merger into BlibliTiket. What is the story behind this merger, and what changes after?

The beauty of a merger with Blibli and Ranch Market is that we don’t need to overextend ourselves to reach a bigger market. We have seen some companies trying to increase the total addressable market by going into areas that are not natural extensions. We are not going that way.

People typically travel between 3-4X per year, maybe buy through e-commerce every couple of weeks, and buy groceries every couple of days. This merger offers a very unique combination of travel, e-commerce, and grocery, naturally allowing more frequent, and deeper engagement with our combined customers.

The three platforms have proven profitable business models worldwide. As we offer each other services and provide single sign-on, it will naturally extend the overlap between three different businesses and increase the synergy of the whole ecosystem. With the synergy, you’ll be able to acquire more customers into each other’s platform and create a bigger, better ecosystem.

Based on the study by Frost & Sullivan and Euromonitor, eCommerce in Indonesia is projected to reach US$150 billion by 2025. The travel & lifestyle market is projected to be US$ 41 billion. Most OTAs are also profitable and publicly listed. International Air Transport Association (IATA) said Indonesia will be the 4th largest travel market in the world by 2030.

Grocery, which is served by Ranch Market is projected to be USD 245 billion by 2025. The combined total addressable market is USD 436 billion by 2025. This is about one-third of Indonesia’s current GDP. It is HUGE. We want to create an ecosystem of choice through omnichannel. Indonesia will still have a huge offline market, even though the online market grows rapidly. Hence omnichannel is the right strategy for Indonesia.

Integrating two companies is hard enough, let alone three. How would you overcome the challenges?

Any merger is never easy. The important thing is that the people involved understand that unity brings bigger synergy. Each of the businesses has a different natural frequency, and the current customer overlap is small. By bringing each platform’s customers into a single ecosystem, we have a better picture of the consumer journey. Our recommendation will become sharper, and consumers will become more sticky and loyal.

Corporate action allows us to improve our corporate structure to grow better. Being a public company also means better corporate governance. We can attract more talents as we can provide ESOP During this volatile equity market condition, we have successfully executed the 2nd largest tech IPO in Asia Pacific in 2022, and the 5th largest of all time in IDX. It gives us a lot of confidence to move forward.

Our focus is on the fundamentals of the business. The support from investors during the IPO provides the confidence that this is a good company to back and that the company is going to be there for the long run. We believe this successful IPO also shores up confidence in Indonesia’s tech startups.

During your 6-year journey with Tiket.com, have you ever thought of starting something new or shifting industry

I personally love people, I love to connect. I like to share ideas and learn new things. Also, I’m obsessed with building GREAT products to meet unmet needs. When I was developing mobile phones, I used to bring 4 mobiles to take the same pictures and compare the quality of the mobile cameras. I love the challenge to start a greenfield operation or turn a company around. With deep curiosity, there are lots of things that interest me.

Personally, I like mentoring and investing in companies. It gives me an opportunity to share ideas, learn new things, support entrepreneurs and contribute to the economy. In terms of investment, in my opinion, if you have experience operating a company, your investment acumen sharpens.

What is your projection for the OTA business in 2023 and forward?

First, the OTA sector is consumer tech, meaning that the size of the business is driven by the number of consumers. With a large population in Indonesia (about 270 million), and South East Asia (about 600 million), this will continue to grow. Second, the travel sector usually grows at 2-3 times the GDP growth. Since online travel penetration in Indonesia is still increasing, online travel usually grows at about 2X the total travel growth. The year 2022 growth is much faster than the typical year, due to revenge travel post covid.

Indonesia’s internet economy will likely reach $330 billion in value by 2030, almost double the current Southeast Asia’s digital economy value of $170 billion, according to a recent report by Google, Temasek, and Bain released in 2021.

Third, Indonesia’s GDP per capita is currently at USD 4000 per capita. Travel inflection point typically happens at USD 7000 per capita level, as we have seen in other markets. As Indonesia crosses this GDP per capita level, travel growth (and OTA growth) is expected to accelerate even more.

I am optimistic that 2023 will be a better year than 2022 in terms of travel. However, we also need to be prepared should things don’t turn out as rosy, by controlling our expenses well. Personally, I think when we finally overcome the pandemic, we’ve grown even stronger. It’s just like the saying “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger”.

From MCI to BNI Ventures, Eddi Danusaputro’s Continuous Journey to Support the State-Owned’s CVC Scheme

August 4, 2022English, InterviewAmvesindo, BNI Ventures, CVC, eddi danusaputro, Mandiri Capital, mastermind-en, mci, venture capitalKristin Siagian

This article is a part of DailySocial’s Mastermind Series, featuring innovators and leaders in Indonesia’s tech industry sharing their stories and point of view.

Indonesia’s investment ecosystem is said to have a tough time, as affected by the “winter season” in the US, where some sources flow the investment money in this country. However, despite the unfortunate facts, we can learn many things from this situation. Eddi Danusaputro agreed on this as a necessary evil, a maturing process for Indonesian startups, which for a long time has had its seasons in the sun.

Recently departed from MCI (Mandiri Capital Indonesia), Eddi Danusaputro has put all in his power to build and nurture the State-Owned Enterprise’s CVC from day one. With limited resources and a small room for experiments, Eddi has led this company to generate 20 investment portfolios. The most recent investment was on Jul 11, 2022, when AgriAku raised $35M. Aside from that, the CVC has had three exits, including the most notable ones, Moka and Jurnal.id.

After dedicating almost 6,5 years of his life to MCI, Eddi is ready to embrace a new journey with another state-owned VC, Bank Negara Indonesia (BNI). Although he is not yet available to discuss much of the new entity’s further plan, he assured to make a good deal of all his previous experiences in the new venture. In addition, he will be fully in charge of the Merah Putih Fund, a fund initiated by the SOE ministry and co-managed by 5 CVCs.

Not long ago, he was appointed as the Chairman of Amvesindo, a venture capital association for Indonesian startups. Aside from the VC life, Eddi is highly passionate about basketball. To date, he’s been involved as the Chairman of Indonesia’s local basketball club, Amartha Hangtuah.

Above are some facts about Eddi Danusaputro. DailySocial has had a chance to hear more about his journey to becoming one of the most successful venture capitalists in the country. Let’s listen to it through the excerpt below.

Let’s start with the early days of your career. How was the journey of becoming a venture capitalist with your economic background?

We usually think we choose our journey, but sometimes it’s the journey that finds us. I graduated in the mid-’90s, and the digital industry was not developed back then. Some options include a state-owned enterprise (SOE), government-related, or Multinational. I chose the last one.

I began in the sales department for FMCG products, P&G. I admit that this experience has sharpened my marketing skills. Whatever you do, whether in sales, marketing, or engineering, at the end of the day, you have to be able to sell. People sell every part of themselves, their ideas, their skills, and their products. Communication sets of skills are essential.

Furthermore, I got a scholarship to Duke University in the US, catching my enthusiasm for the finance industry. I started in New York City with Morgan Stanley, then relocated to Singapore. I lived there for 12 years and finally returned to my home country to help build MCI.

You have experienced different cultures by studying and working in the US, then transferred to Singapore and living there for 12 years. Is there any significant impact on your journey?

Studying abroad has broadened my insight. With students and lecturers from different countries also brought different perspectives. Several trends are set outside the home country. For example, the “dot com” trend started in the US, and I am fortunate to experience it live. It goes along with investment terms, private funds, and so on that rise from the west. People with the privilege to study or work abroad can experience the trend and move back to leverage the movement in their home country.

In Singapore, people tend to be disciplined and punctual. Also, they are usually more individualist in terms of working culture. Colleagues do not necessarily become friends. They’re just in it for the job. Meanwhile, aside from the traffic that challenges time management in Indonesia, we are most likely to be social. Friends are pretty close and easily share contact. In other countries, privacy is precious.

During the journey, you’ve been occupying several positions. Which one do you cherish most?

I have been working in the capital market, where we need to keep an eye 24/7 to monitor the selling and buyout in the exchange. This situation has affected my working hours and communication in general, not mentioning about the time differences and the high volatility. It is pretty different from the dynamics of the startup industry. However, whichever, I should be able to enjoy the process.

How about the challenge after you’ve entered the VC industry?

In the startup industry, we’re investing in people, the founders. We need to build a relationship to know the person, which requires some time. That is one thing. Then, the pandemic came rattling, and some did not make it.

Recently, the startup industry is said to have a winter season. Some of these startups are yet to experience a correction, either topline or valuation. This condition is something they should learn from. Is it going to affect the runway? Should they be worried? What will the investors do? This way, we can finally see the founder’s character and which one will be resilient and survive during the hard times.

You’ve recently departed from Mandiri Capital Indonesia after 6,5 years of building and nurturing the CVC. What can you share about the experience, and where do you plan the next journey?

I was there from day one of MCI. I helped build the system, workflow, and SOP and shaped the company culture. We are not a giant company with massive resources. Therefore, we need to work efficiently. I need most of the team to be generalists and intrigued to know the work of the other groups. Work rotation is necessary. Everyone should learn everything before becoming a specialist.

As a CVC, we also need to take a risk, not to be reckless but calculated risks. It is fair to make mistakes as long as the process has been proper. However, not all decisions turn out to be what we planned. The culture is to know how to make a decision and be responsible.

It has been two terms, and I have officially departed from MCI. However, I’m still being an advisor during the transition to my new position. MCI is a long trip. My next journey is to build a new CVC for Bank Negara Indonesia (BNI). It may look similar to the last journey, but I’ve had my experiences and learned my lessons.

You were recently appointed as the Chairman of Amvesindo, a venture capital association for Indonesian startups. Do you think the industry has already in its ideal situation?

On a general note, the association covers not only the VCs but also startups (which are yet to have an independent association). It also becomes a discussion companion for regulators, bridging the concern of the two parties. It is the core and primary function in this industry.

It is yet to be ideal. However, this is a long journey. The important thing is that communication is way better than before. Startups, VCs, and the government have built an excellent start to walk through this journey.

Aside from the current job, do you have other interests to pursue?

I’m also an angel investor for some companies starting from scratch. Also, I’m currently a Chairman of the Amartha Hangtuah basketball club.
I have a mission for Indonesian basketball clubs can be profitable like the global ones, not just rely on the owner’s pockets. I’ve dreamed of them surviving with sponsorships, ticket merchandise, etc. The club should be self-sustainable.

Furthermore, I intend to improve athletes’ welfare in Indonesia. There are numerous stories about former athletes who live below the poverty line. It might be due to a lack of skills outside of sports or the unawareness of saving and investing. Every payday at the club, I help oversee and encourage them always to plan their expenses and set a pie for investment and savings. It’s solely for their future.

Eventually, I want to boost these clubs’ exposure, hoping they can plot for IPO one day. I wish to take my club to the next level and reach these milestones. Thus, I can wed my two passions, startups and basketball.

As a seasoned entrepreneur, is there anything you want to say to the younger generation who just started their journey?

This thing is essential. Whatever age you are, you must be eager to learn something new. Surround yourself with people who are more intelligent than you. If you walk into a meeting and are the smartest person in the room, you’re in the wrong room. Then, you cannot learn anything new. It includes when we’re in the organization, we must dare to hire people with expertise different from you. At a Director’s level, one must know to recruit people who are a thinker, not only executors.

I experienced several career pivots and must be ready to learn something new. Life is a series of continuous learning. Besides my current career path and basketball venture, I’m also a lecturer at Bina Nusantara University (Binus). Once I had a class of corporate students, and I had fun teaching and learning from them. The key is not to easily satisfied and feels like an expert.

Currently, I’m treasuring new technologies. I called it ABCD (Artificial Intelligence, Blockchain, Cloud Computing, and Database). I took a course in data science and machine learning. It’s my thirst to learn something I am yet to master. Lately, I’ve been interested in crypto meanwhile still focusing on sports management.

What’s your projection on the startup investment industry? Which sectors are resilient enough to get through this storm?

This winter season is a necessary evil. It’s a maturing process for Indonesian startups, which has had its seasons in the sun for a long time. Even though they can pass through the pandemic, now, with the downturn, it is a good thing, something to clear our sight.

All kinds of assets, stocks, commodities, everything has a cycle. Correction is inevitable. Then, the spring will come again. There are several schemes with B2B, B2C, B2B2C, and D2C. The one with the “burn money” strategy mainly lies on B2C. However, this is all going to change. Businesses should be able to outsmart this strategy.

My prediction goes with consolidation. There are so many e-commerce players. Are they all going to survive? I don’t think so. The market will eventually narrow, some will die or fall, and there will be few options. I root for consolidation and M&A in this ecosystem. Startups also need to plan for exits, which could be IPO or other mechanisms.

Edward Chamdani to Unlock Indonesia’s Ultimate Potential by Encouraging Upstream Investment

June 22, 2022EnglishEdward Ismawan Chamdani, Gayo Capital, ideosource, investment, mastermind-en, nexticornKristin Siagian

This article is a part of DailySocial’s Mastermind Series, featuring innovators and leaders in Indonesia’s tech industry sharing their stories and point of view.

Edward Ismawan Chamdani started his journey in the tech industry through the best-known computer company in the world. For years, he had his shared interest in the financial sector and finally started his own software company. With a decade-long experience in the industry and one of the perks of being an analyst, he builds a fine network within the startup and investment scene.

In partnership with Andi S. Boediman, Ideosource was built from brick to brick. Now it is expanding beyond just a VC. His other initiative, Gayo Capital, partnered with Ishara Yusdian and Jefri Sirait focuses on revenue-generating companies whose businesses organically create impact to the world. Recently, he also started a venture builder named Starcamp Asia aiming to bridge the founder’s gap in the country.

Edward has a personal purpose to unlock the ultimate potential of Indonesia sustainably from various aspects mainly in leveraging human capital surplus and abundant natural resources via technology disruption and implementation. In order to achieve this mission, he encourages people to be more invested in the core issues, it is upstream investment.

Indonesia is the tech paradise of Asia, where technologically enabled startups can find fertile soil to grow and deliver impactful contributions to the developing nation’s problems. The President himself has announced the Nation’s Vision To be the Digital Energy of ASIA. An achievable vision as Indonesia has been the biggest economy in Southeast Asia, 8th biggest in the world, and in the middle of a massive digital transformation changing its young population from a nation of workers into digital-savvy talent taking over the world, one unicorn at a time.

Starting with mechanical engineering, grasping some financial background, and accidentally creating a VC, Edward has been learning during the process. He is currently serving as Managing Partner at Ideosource Venture Capital, Gayo Capital, and StarCamp – with a mission to incubate, invest and accelerate with a “Purpose”.

DailySocial is glad to have such an insightful and passionate discussion of Edward’s biggest dream to unlock Indonesia’s ultimate potential. Below is an excerpt of the conversation.

What do you think of Indonesia’s investment ecosystem nowadays?

It was early 2011 when we first started Ideosource, startup quality was quite green. There are limited sources for mentors, and events, let alone VCs, we’re all still learning. Every time we find startups with a legitimate business model, it’s still not clear how the investment process should be carried out. Years passed by and we finally see a sweet spot around 2014-2015, turns out our investment was fruitful.

Over time, Indonesia’s startup ecosystem is getting mature and one by one reached unicorn status. Rudiantara, who at that time still leading Indonesia’s Communication and Informatics Ministry, initiated the leaders of these tech giants to meet with global investors, and the progress is superb. Indonesia is getting broadened and better exposure in the global tech scene. In 2018, was held the first Nexticorn (Next Indonesian Unicorn) with a vision to step up the game for Indonesia’s startup scene.

Indonesia’s list of unicorns in the first quarter of 2022

Observing the startup scene in the last few months regarding the global meltdown, it is still very promising. In fact, this is the right time for them to start fundraising due to the projection of investment decline in 1-2 years ahead, especially for heavily impacted VCs with big-level funding. However, in general, it will not affect the whole ecosystem we still have a great potential growth story. Our market share remains huge in several sectors, including commerce, fintech, and edtech.

The most interesting is in healthtech. Previously, we have substantial issues with online prescriptions and Electronic Medical Records. Under the supervision of a tech-literate figure, there are more policies that support tech accessibility and adoption. The presence of the Peduli Lindungi app, telemedicine service, and government collaborations with healthtech companies are proven effective during this pandemic.

In addition, there are many other sectors yet to optimize, including forwarding, logistics, cross border trading. In terms of natural resources from agriculture to human capital. There are huge potential lies in B2B while people are focusing on B2C.

The thing is, most investments are engaged in the downstream sectors instead of the upstream side due to market availability and accessibility. Upstream investments may take extra effort as it is aimed at the root causes that are often identified by determining the most immediate and direct causes and working backward from there. In many cases, upstream action addresses social, economic and environmental conditions.

Ideosource grasps the experience of investing in the upstream sector with eFishery. It is resulting in the shifting of the whole value chain, from the unbankable to bankable fish farmers through thoroughly distributed information. This is the kind of ecosystem that will drive the whole sector. As it extends the business and continues to the processing level, it will lead to export and import and ends up in the country’s exchange.

It is not about the downstream sector did not have an impact, it is only limited to the additional income for the players. When we focus on the producers, we can use local resources for the country’s economic resilience. I think VCs should consider this investment angle.

You have a background in mechanical engineering, strong experience in the financing industry and currently serve as Managing Partner in two giant VCs. Can you share a bit of the transition?

Previously, I’ve been in a sales organization that handles industrial product distributors. Then, I moved to IBM and really got into the tech stuff. In my last year, I’ve been handling the financial sector (around “11 banking institutions), combining IBM’s solutions to advise banking customers.

In 2002, I co-founded a software company, and my evolution as a founder continue until I decided to exit in 2007. However, I was still around as a Director for several years up to 2010. After that, I’m not immediately started a new company. What I learn as I started my own company, the hardest part is to align the vision, mission, and chemistry with partners. It is bad enough when you meet the wrong partner.

My next journey is to be a business consultant, and the story gets better when I worked with Plasa.com. That is where I build a work-related relationship with Andi S. Boediman, the other Managing Partner in Ideosource. It was late 2010 when I meet a general partner of a big-enough Private Equity (PE), and he said then would be the perfect timing to start a VC. We did our research around 4-5 months to finally debuted with Ideosource. It was a simple analysis, in late 2010, 3g penetration is still around 30 million with the rapid growth of internet users. It was also the beginning of the e-commerce era.

Starting with mechanical engineering, grasping some financial background, and accidentally creating a VC, I’m learning during the process. The thing is, I learned that running a business, and generating cash flow with available funds for growth are totally different. A conventional business survives only with cash flow. Once I entered the VC scene, there are other perspectives. It is ok if you don’t make a profitable business at the beginning, as long as you are analyzing a certain business model in a sector that you can be sure to be a dominant player.

This kind of perspective makes me see there are totally two different worlds. Many people find it hard to understand that capital market, venture investment, and startup thesis, are totally different from conventional business. An interesting fact, the availability of funds will never lessen. It is just a matter of who can convince people with loaded bags of money to invest.

What are your hypotheses on the portfolios?

In terms of analyzing, it is relatively similar. First, we need to look at the founder’s quality, integrity, and so on. Sometimes, when the founder is approved, the fund is secured. Furthermore, we are to discuss the sector, business model, addressable market, and the target for several years. Also, is it attractive enough for the investors? Because liquidity can only work if the story is compelling for the next investors. We’ll be reluctant if there’s no story.

What is your biggest hardship during the business journey?

Hardships are inevitable. I previously mentioned the hardest part is finding the right partner. That is one of the reasons why I have several initiatives with different partners. Each of them has quite a distinct appetite, knowledge, and passion. Ideosource was a fruit of the seed that Andi Boediman and I planted a decade before. Our creativity doesn’t stop there, Andi has his shared interest with Ideosource Entertainment, while I’m nurturing more impact-initiated startups with Gayo Capital.

Along the way, we found that investing in the upstream sector has its own challenge. The founder gap is clear. The quality of founders in the upstream and downstream sectors is quite big, especially outside of Java Island. Recently, we’ve launched our latest initiative named Starcamp to bridge founders with all kinds of information and tools to build qualities and step up their game. This is a marathon as we also develop the founders to deliver vision and mission.

You have previously mentioned the founder gap, also investors should be more invested in the upstream sector, what’s your take on this issue?

In terms of the founder gap, I think it is fine for the startups with a focus on the core technology to be headquartered in Java. When the infrastructure is ready, they can deploy it outside the island. Therefore, if there are other cases like eFishery, startups outside Java could replicate the concept. They did not necessarily become a tech company but they can be a facilitator.

There are many in the agriculture sector, these are companies we tried to invest in. We’ll create together a more scalable business model that allows them to expand outside of Java. This is the kind of upstream investment I was roaming about, for investors to invest in a certain technology to be licensed outside the island. An integrated value chain happens there.

The thing is, innovation in conglomeration takes 5 to 10 years, just like in the upstream sector. Not many startups are brave enough to enter this scene, only conglomerations with strong capital and a 10-year investment horizon. How can VCs have a conglomerate-like horizon and invest in such kinds of startups?

I have one terminology in Gayo Capital, a reverse conglomeration, inspired by the downstream sector portfolios in Ideosource’s early time which currently has contributed a lot more. Why can’t it be the upstream sector? If we’re going to rely only on conglomeration, the innovation is limited although it has a big contribution to the GDP. Startups have potential as long as they focus on creating an ecosystem that is integrated with each powerful core business, therefore, creating a solid value chain.

Aside from the current position, you’re also in charge of this year’s Nexticorn highlighting the emerging sector. Can you elaborate on this matter?

Such names are emerging this year, including the web3 and its definition which is still fragmented. However, the underlying of this blockchain technology has tremendous evolution. People are learning about bitcoin, the NFT is rising, and more platforms are developed to cater to this industry. The concept is aiming to be a decentralized autonomous organization. That’s the ultimate destination.

Edward Chamdani diampu sebagai CEO NXC 2022

In the crypto scene, we’ve seen people are still relying on the exchange. In the future, the role might be getting less needed as people are having their own wallets and stuff. In the future, peer-to-peer will exist, and decentralized finance will happen. Disruption will be more extensive than ever, including in VCs.

VCs and investors are said to be more careful and selective to place their money. What is your suggestion for the startup?

I think those who are too insecure might lose the opportunity. Every situation has its moment. It all comes back to the hypothesis. Even in the most peculiar situation, if the market is there and in need of a solution, and it is possible to be executed, it is a deal. I think the more investors are hesitant, VCs who can see the opportunities shouldn’t stop.

In fact, using the “growth at all cost” strategy to be a dominant player is so last year. Investors are now looking for growth to profitability. It’s no longer an era for “burning money”, there are already many casualties. It is a natural correction. Investors will also see the country’s direction while doing investments related to the regulation and government. This will also be the highlight of this year’s Nexticorn. There will be related policymakers to explain Indonesia’s objective toward the tech industries, from crypto, tax, and exchange regulations.

As a seasoned investor with tons of experience in the industry. What is your biggest dream about this country’s tech and investment ecosystem?

After a decade or two in the tech industry, building Ideosource while hands-on in various sectors, focusing to impact with Gayo Capital, and bridging the founder’s gap with Starcamp, the main objective is one. I want Indonesia to be able to unlock its full potential. Even with the founder’s gap, there must be an initiative that we can work together to create a path for them. This is also the reason I’m very excited to join Nexticorn.

I’m also part of several associations, including Amvesindo and Aludi. All of their initiatives are merely to aspire the startup and investment ecosystem in Indonesia to be better. For the people to not depend solely on conventional financial sources and instead have alternative funding. From unbankable to bankable.

On the other side, we need to provide education and nurturing, also mentorship for them. As it continues to grow, various associations with its own specific subject, including Nexticorn, will open new doors to global investors. By saying this, hopefully, Indonesia can be faster to unlock and unleash its truest and full potential. Personally, after setting this vision and mission, I can work more focused and with purpose.

Lippo Group’s John Riady Takes on the Conglomerate Investment in the Technology Landscape

April 29, 2022Englishdigital transformation, john riady, lippo group, mastermind-en, TechnologyKristin Siagian

This article is a part of DailySocial’s Mastermind Series, featuring innovators and leaders in Indonesia’s tech industry sharing their stories and point of view.

Based on a journal entitled, “The Conglomerate Corporation” published on the digital library JSTOR, Conglomerate is defined as a business corporation producing products or services of several industries that are unrelated with respect to raw material sources, product development, production technology, or marketing channels.

Lippo Group is one of Indonesia’s largest and most diversified conglomerates. Dr. Mochtar Riady, Founder of the Lippo Group, transformed a small family business as a proprietor of a bicycle shop into one of Asia’s leading conglomerates with an ever-expanding global footprint. It is now a strategic and active investment holding company with investments in property, malls, hospitals, school and university, supermarket and department stores, hotels, food retailing, banking, media, broadband internet, and digital technology.

John Riady, the group’s successor, is currently leading the business as the Director of Lippo Group. He holds a number of positions within the group’s subsidiaries. Apart from being a licensed attorney in the State of New York, he also holds degrees from several top global universities in business and political majors.

Under John’s leadership, the Lippo Group is passionate about developing the digital economy, including transforming the group as a whole. In that case, Lippo Group made PT Multipolar Tbk. (MLPT) as the investment arm in the digital sector, considering that at least 40 technology companies have been backed by this fund.

However, John Riady does not necessarily let go of the conventional business tentacles that are the foundation of the Lippo Group. One of the four digital business strategies that John pioneered is to marry digital business entities with the Lippo Group ecosystem to strengthen the business in a sustainable manner.
DailySocial had an amazing opportunity to be able to virtually discuss the phenomenon of Indonesian conglomerate’s investment in the tech scene and translated it into below paragraphs.

Lippo Group is considered as one of Asia’s largest and most diversified conglomerates. With various business sectors under its auspices, why deciding to focus on the technology landscape?

Let’s begin with some background story. Lippo Group has started to invest in the technology sector since 2013. Eight years ago, our ex-Google friend introduced us to several unfamiliar names of early-stage companies, which today have become the leader in its respective industries. Back then, these companies have made an effective use of Google Ads, have good traction, and are rapidly growing.

Since then, we’ve started to invest in this type of business, including OVO, RuangGuru, Fave, Carro, TADA and others. We called them the first generation startups, including Grab, we were already part of them long before the company finally went public on NYSE.

Fast forward seven years later, all of these early-stage companies have become giant techs. In our early investment, the total valuation of all the startups in Indonesia should add up to 1 trillion Rupiah. To date, with all the funding and growth, Indonesia’s tech scene has multiply a dozen times at around $60 billion or almost a thousand trillion Rupiah. It is all happen within less than 10 years.

We believe this is just the beginning of this sector. The number can still multiply. As we see from China’s exchange, there are around 25% tech companies already listed. Indonesia, on the other side, is only at 1% or 2%. There is still room to grow.

In terms of Lippo, this is an industry where we should penetrate and explore further. Therefore, we came up with four strategies to keep up with the emerging market, which are early-stage investment, late stage, partnership, and collaborations.

First, we invest in early-stage companies. We focused on investing in digital companies from the start. That way, we can learn together with the founders.
Second, late-stage strategy, we invest in digital companies with pre-IPO (Intial Public Offering) status. Because after all, digital companies that have reached this phase have managed to survive, and subdue the dominance of hundreds of similar companies.

Third, we also partner with investors and global tech players. Especially the companies that have plans to expand to Indonesia. China’s biggest insurance company, Ping An, for example. We became local partners and created joint ventures. It is a similar case with Luno, US-based crypto exchange, we support their expansion to the country.

Finally, collaboration with other great tech companies to open new opportunities and value creation for our business. In addition, we’re undergoing digital transformation within our organisation, all three pillars would have positive impact on our development.

With various business sectors under Lippo Group’s auspices, and you holds a number positions within the group’s subsidiaries. How can you manage?

This is more likely about organization. Here’s an outline, we divided Lippo Group’s business into two. First, is Core Operations, where we have become the market leader. We have extensive knowledge and keep tabs on the operational excellence. Especially around medical and property business like malls, hotels, and hospital.

The other tribe is more like a strategic investment. The mindset that goes operational is important, but we need to get strategic. This space is for investment and partnership with founders, creating joint venture with overseas partners. Therefore, at the right time we are also ready to make asset divestment. We need to keep the cycle going in order to make our portfolio optimal and futuristic.

I, personally, am doing day-to-day work as the CEO of the first tribe, also being the Commissioner for several companies under its auspices. Unlike the operational-base job, the second tribe is more strategic.

But at the end of the day, it is people that determine our success. We aspire to be a talent-driven organization, and I am grateful for my colleagues and all the people who dedicate their lives each day to ensuring that we achieve our objectives and serve our customers well.

Have you ever encountered any challenges along the journey?

Our businesses are human-centered. We managed lots of companies in various sectors and different maturity stages. It takes a big effort to make this work. The only way to make sure this run well is investing bigger in the human capital management. This is frankly become the key of success for any organization. We often called as a talent-first organisation since we’re getting deep-serious about talent issues.

Take a hospital for example, with all the doctors and nurses. The same goes to property and hospitality business. Without people to design a well-being community and marketing, it is just an empty lot. These talents are building a better infrastructure. That is the key to a great organization.

Previously you’ve mentioned about Lippo Group’s first and second tribes? How can you explain the linkages between the two tribes?

There are some differences but there is also a connecting line. It is tricky, with companies in different maturity stages. There are opportunities and risks. The management would be different. At the early stage, the company’s growth might be hindered with too many regulations. However, as it started to grow, it requires good governance to maintain the company’s growth.

The thing is, all these companies are all providing solution to certain problems. Ultimately, these organizations are also generating profit by answering the challenges or issues of its consumers. The key is to stay true to the purpose. What will become the function and benefit for the environment and community around.

In terms of investment, Lippo Group has Multipolar and Venturra, can you elaborate on the positioning of each entity? How far the Lippo Group’s involvement to the portfolio companies?

Venturra is a part of Multipolar that focus on investment to the early stage business. Multipolar is more likely the holdings of all the Lippo Group’s investment.

In terms of involvement, it’s different for each portfolio. There are companies where we are deeply involved due to ownership portion or the company’s preferences. We may be act as Venture Builder with portfolios, such as OVO. However, there are companies where we only need to maintain and observe since they already an independent entity.

In a way, we believe in the open ecosystem principal. In order for a tech company to outgrow itself, it has to be open for collaboration. What Lippo Group does to its portfolio is all the way supporting, we’ll help with networking and positioning in the market.

What is your perspective about impact investment?

We did not distinguish impact with non-impact. I believe that every investment have to be impact investment. The key is to merge the purpose of our core organization and the profit. There used to be a dichotomy, an organization can make money in any way possible, and part of the profit will be shared for CSR, it could be related to business or not at all. Today, we are challenged to connect the two dots, purpose and profit. I think that is the tea, what is important is to stay committed to the core purpose.

I believe a successful company is a company that can make an impact in the life of community and environment. There is no such business without an impact. All investments should be impact investment.

As we already discovered that Lippo Group has been involved in various sectors in the digital landscape. What is your projection on the continuity of this industry for the next 5 years? What could possibly be the next rising sector? And how would you position the company in this scene?

There is still a huge opportunity lies ahead. Lippo as a Group will always look for the good founder with the full grasp of the industry, a good investment deal, and potential exit. For the next rising industry, from the early disruption is media company, then it goes to online shopping (e-commerce). Previously, we had ride-hailing in transportation, also in the health sector. I believe all of these sectors will reach the transformation and it is a positive thing. We need to support and optimize the potential.

Have you ever long for any other interest beyond the family business?

In business, I think people would be more likely to focus. We are still growing in the health business or property business, however, we need to maintain not only the growth but also the operational excellence. Growth can be many things. We expect to optimize growth in each of our companies and portfolios. The way to make it happen is to invest and collaborate with all the great men. According to our business concept, stewardship, we aspire to be a good stewards of what has been entrusted to us.

Dondi Hananto’s Hypothesis on Impact Investment: Scalability is the Key

February 10, 2022English, IMPACTCreative Industry, dondi hananto, impact business, impact investment, mastermind-en, patamar capitalKristin Siagian

This article is a part of DailySocial’s Mastermind Series, featuring innovators and leaders in Indonesia’s tech industry sharing their stories and point of view.

There is no doubt that impact investing as a concept has gained more popularity than before. Directing capital to ventures that are expected to yield social and environmental benefits as well as profits provides investors with a way to “do well by doing good.” Dondi Hananto has been trying to do similar work with Patamar for the past seven years.

For over 15 years, Dondi has built specialization in microfinancing, risk, portfolio, and credit management through the banking industry. Although he claimed the intention wasn’t purely passion, he came to find his niche in technology and impact through this industry. His very first private fund, Kinara, relied on curiosity but already used the impact-focus investment concept. It was also several venture experiences until he decided to be better focusing on the investment side of the ecosystem.

One of the biggest questions about impact investing is: “Can funds achieve both social impact and returns at scale?”

In fact, only a small proportion of funds has consistently generated market rate return and measurable social and environmental impact at a large scale, especially in equity. Through this piece, Dondi is to share some stories on the impact investment area and the key to its sustainability.

As a banker-turned-investor, Dondi Hananto has been actively taking part in building the Indonesian entrepreneurship ecosystem, investing in early-stage, scalable companies. DailySocial has an opportunity to have an exclusive interview on his extensive insights on the impact business and investment. Below is an excerpt of his story.

Let’s begin from when you were in the banking industry. How has technology affected your life and shaped your career?

I graduated amidst the financial crisis in 1998. It was very hard for most people to do basically anything. Banking was the first job offer I got, and I took it out of desperation. However, although my intention wasn’t purely passion, I came to find my niche through this industry. There are a few things about banking that I really fit into and support me along the journey. It’s all related to tech.

My educational background is in computer science, but I’m not really digging into coding. In the long run, I was encountered big projects in system implementation. I was quite invested in the retail lending team, such as credit cards or KTA, and I feel good. Not only that I was still working with the IT team on the technology, but it is indeed necessary to have someone being the bridge of tech and business matters. I kinda fit that position.

My second niche was before the term “big data”, but what we did was basically the origin of data science. One of the great projects I’ve worked on is creating a specific scorecard for Indonesia given that I was working in the global bank. We’ve learned so much from the headquarter team and the implementation projects. That’s when my passion grew, on how to utilize technology to simplify human work.

What is the turning point that makes you decide to enter the tech investment industry?

After 13 years of working in the banking industry, mainly in the capital loan for MSMEs, my curiosity arose on how early-stage tech companies raise funding. I’ve searched for ways to learn about this but banks don’t do that. Also, there were not enough sources around Southeast Asia back in 2009-10. I realized that I can’t do this through banking, so I quit.

Prior to that, I started creating a small private fund for early-stage investment named Kinara. The business was based out of curiosity and craving for digging some more. From then on, funding becomes a necessary foundation, but that is not solely the problem. We need the whole ecosystem to work, one way to get closer to that is through the community. That time, I also had some talks with my fellow friends about coworking space. One thing led to another, since we haven’t settled on a building, we can use this opportunity to create a business, have an office and gather a bigger entrepreneur community.

We finally had an office, the coworking space named Comma. For a while, I was also involved in a crowdfunding platform for creative projects called Wujudkan.com. The cycle goes on with the entrepreneurship ecosystem, raising funds to invest, creating coworking space to tighten up communities, and crowdfunding for creative business. I’ve learned bit by bit how to run a tech startup.

How does it feel to build your own venture? What kind of lessons have you learned during that time?

I believe in the concept of learning by doing, that’s what I did with the first two ventures. In fact, running a company is hard, but it is harder when you have to run three.

At that point, I was starting to be a full-time partner on Patamar and decided to focus on that. With my knowledge and experience, I know that I would be better focusing on the investment side of the ecosystem.

When did you realize that you grow interest in this impact business and investment?

My last corporate job was with Bank Sampoerna, I was in charge of the micro-credit department. It is kind of heavy on impact. My biggest question at that time was “How to apply my experience in the financial industry for something impactful, but still under the same framework?”. Along the way, I was getting more invested in the idea.

Starting with Kinara, my network is expanding, then I met my current partners in Patamar. Back in 2014, they were raising a fund for Southeast Asia and I decided to join. Although I’m not a co-founder, part of me always feels that this is my own fund. Since I am also a partner, that counts as my skin in the game.

In Patamar Capital, how did you do fundraising? Considering the different angle with most mainstream VCs

This might not always be the highlight, but VCs, funds like us are all fundraising, just like startups. We did pitching to the investors, the process is practical as usual. First, we’ll provide them insights on the industry, startup, and the Southeast Asia region before detailed discussion about our fundraising objectives. Our investor base is global, some of them highly concerned about the impact, while some find it as a “nice to have”. However, of all our investors, there will always be a financial return target, some even very specific. Our biggest investors are impact-focused, therefore, they closely monitor the metrics, measurement, and reporting on the impact.

What was the hypothesis on the founder or business in terms of Impact Investment with Patamar?

Humans tend to look for black and white, but we are standing in the middle, like grey area. We don’t choose one over the other, our objectives are both financial returns AND impact. While we’re eye-ing for the company and building hypotheses around the attractive sector, we actually looking for a company in which the impact is embedded in the business. Therefore, as the business grows, the impact will follow.

Take one use case, there are some businesses that put impact after the business. Toms Shoes company uses this concept, when someone buys a pair of shoes, for instance, the company donates a pair of shoes to a child in a poor country. If we look closer to the financial model, this impact will create costs for the business. When the business goes under pressure, the cost could possibly be cut.

It is things like this that we’ve been trying to avoid, where the impact related to the business but in a way didn’t grow together. Some businesses have set aside revenue for impact, yet it is still cost-structured. It may be consistent today, but who knows what the future holds.

Take another example, Sayurbox. With the current business model, as the growth continues, they need to look for more farmers/suppliers. Instead of creating a cost, the impact to farmers grows along with the business. As a fund, it is only fair to say that we are after both impact and profit.

In Patamar, our impact thesis includes financial services, SME and agriculture, healthcare, and education. We invest in these sectors because it is closely involved with people in the aspiring middle-class level, which means most of the people in this country, including the grassroot.

Patamar Capital aside, do you have any particular interest in another impact sector?

Personally, there are two things I’ve always been interested in but they are outside of Patamar’s impact mandate at the moment: environmental impact and creative industry. Why do I think of creative industry as an impactful sector? It’s particularly job creation. There are lots of artists who rely on this sector. In the film industry, for example, lots of people can be employed through one movie. It is indeed impactful. Many impact investors are focused on culture preservation and arts. However, when it comes to business models, it is quite hard to define.

The key is scalability. Lots of art/culture-related businesses have issues with growth due to indefinite business models or limited scalability. In fact, I haven’t seen lots of art-related companies scale fast. I’m actually thrilled to see the wave of web3 and NFT reach the art industry first. Aside from helping the artists scale by reaching the global market, the smart contract ability can generate constant royalty to the artists. Again, as a tech geek, I have always been keen on this area.

What is your personal aim in this impact investment industry? How about the long-term gain?

Personally, the reason why I started this might be different with some of my partners with the western point of view. They have done it before, in the US-Europe and they look for new markets to implement the concept. I started as an Indonesian who sees great potential and opportunities to improve the life of 270 million people in Indonesia, 600 million in Southeast Asia.

In my definition, improving life is done by increasing income or improving the currently available product or services with higher quality and accessibility. For me, the personal aim is to see more Indonesian people and in SEA, to live a decent life. There is actually one thing that I’m still learning and exploring the solution, on how to improve the wealth distribution in SEA’s countries, especially Indonesia.

If we look closely, All the biggest companies are centralized in the capital cities. There is very few large corporations headquartered in cities outside of Java. In the US, for example, different states have their own giant company. I’m kind of afraid if everything revolves around Jakarta only, it won’t be healthy. I don’t know the solution yet, but that’s one of the big goals I’m still trying to discover.

We talked about all the potential and benefits of running the impact investment, but what is the worst-case scenario if it doesn’t work out?

In fact, the ‘Holy Grail’ is to invest in the impact companies and still generate financial returns. If the cycle completed, there will be more investors to enter this industry. Who didn’t want to grow money, plus make an impact? However, if it doesn’t work out, the impact investing industry alone will still be there, but probably the money will only come from philanthrophy sources. Only, the impact investing industry wouldn’t scale up. Once it stops scaling up, that’s my worst-case scenario.

To wrap this up, what can you say about the projection of impact investment in Indonesia? Also, to those who are building impact businesses in the country.

The impact industry is expanding and growing. I find it interesting when there is an intersection of impact-focused investors with more traditional tech VCs. A report by Angin in 2020 on Investing in Impact in Indonesia shows many tech VCs are starting to invest in the impact business and I think it’s very healthy for the ecosystem in order to grow.

We also saw many interesting and impactful projects that failed to attract investors due to inconsistent business models. Equitiy investors like us, will most certainly look for scalability. For equity investors, it is a high risk, a high return, therefore, entrepreneurs should also think about how to scale and expand their business That is not easy, but it is possible. Note that this is not the only way to grow a business, but if you’re looking for equity investors, that is the reality. You can also choose to grow your business more slowly, but the consequence is that you may not be able to access the available equity-based capital.

Dibalik Status Unicorn Xendit, Moses Lo Fokus Membangun Fundamental Perusahaan

December 20, 2021Interviewfintech, mastermind-en, moses lo, unicorn, Xendit, ycombinatorKristin Siagian

Artikel ini adalah bagian dari Seri Mastermind DailySocial yang menampilkan para inovator dan pemimpin di industri teknologi Indonesia untuk berbagi cerita dan sudut pandang.

Tidak dapat dipungkiri bahwa budaya kerja menjadi salah satu pertimbangan besar ketika seseorang memutuskan untuk mengambil pekerjaan baru di satu perusahaan. Hal ini dipahami betul oleh Moses Lo, Pendiri dan CEO Xendit, saat dia bekerja untuk sebuah perusahaan, begitu pula ketika memulai sesuatu yang baru. Di Xendit, ia selalu memastikan bahwa fundamental organisasi bisa terpenuhi. Moses fokus membangun internal perusahaan agar dapat melayani pihak eksternal dengan lebih baik.

Moses mengawali bisnis ini dengan passion, ia bercita-cita menciptakan sesuatu yang bisa menggerakkan pasar untuk kurun waktu lebih dari 20 tahun. Ia membangun gerbang pembayaran untuk menyederhanakan dan mengamankan transaksi bisnis. Dengan ide tersebut, Xendit menjadi startup Indonesia pertama yang diterima dalam program Y Combinator.

Sedari kecil, Moses sudah terpapar dunia teknologi. Beranjak dewasa, ia mulai tertarik pada hal-hal terkait keuangan dan perbankan, disandingkan dengan latar belakang pendidikan di bidang teknologi, sampailah ia ke dunia fintech. Ia berhasil lulus dengan gelar mahasiswa terbaik di jurusan commerce, manajemen sistem informasi, dan keuangan di University of New South Wales. Melanjutkan kisah bisnisnya, ia bergabung di Berkeley untuk mengambil gelar master bisnisnya. Moses juga memiliki pengalaman bekerja dengan dua perusahaan terbaik dunia, mengajarinya hal-hal penting untuk memasuki industri teknologi.

Pada tahun 2015, di usianya yang ke-27 tahun, Moses memulai Xendit. Sejak saat itu, perusahaan telah berkembang pesat. Pada tahun ini, Xendit berhasil tercatat sebagai salah satu unicorn di Indonesia. Infrastruktur Xendit juga telah banyak digunakan oleh perusahaan di Indonesia, Filipina, dan Asia Tenggara.

Berikut petikan diskusi kami dengan Moses Lo, orang nomor satu di Xendit, tentang visi dan pencapaiannya di industri teknologi.

Bagaimana awal mula Anda mengejar karir di industri teknologi?

Saya ingin terjun ke industri teknologi sejak berusia 13 atau 14 tahun. Hal ini semata-mata karena kebiasaan bermain game dan merakit komputer. Jadi, saya selalu ingin melakukan sesuatu yang berbau teknologi. Tumbuh dewasa, saya mulai tertarik dengan hal-hal terkait keuangan dan perbankan, lalu mengambil jurusan Sistem Informasi di Universitas, yang akhirnya membawa saya ke fintech. Setelah itu, saya sempat bekerja dengan Boston Consulting Group (BCG) dan Amazon untuk beberapa waktu sebelum memutuskan untuk memulai perusahaan sendiri.

Seperti apa kehidupan Anda sebelum memulai Xendit?

Saya berasal dari keluarga pengusaha. Salah satu alasan saya bekerja di BCG adalah karena mereka pandai dalam mengajarkan keahlian-keahlian berbisnis yang baik. Mereka mengajari cara berpikir, cara menyajikan informasi dengan baik, cara berbicara dengan orang yang lebih tua, orang yang lebih senior, dan jauh lebih penting dari saya. Itu adalah bekal yang sangat berguna.

Kemudian, saya juga sempat bekerja di Amazon untuk waktu yang singkat. Amazon, dibandingkan dengan perusahaan lain, bersaing sangat ketat untuk setiap pasar di mana mereka beroperasi. Mereka memenangkan e-commerce di AS, layanan cloud mereka tersebar di mana-mana. Pergerakan mereka sangat baik dalam ruang kompetitif ini dan saya ingin belajar di perusahaan yang sangat baik dalam hal berkompetisi. Dalam waktu yang singkat itu, saya juga belajar bagaimana membangun budaya startup yang scalable dan bagaimana membangun tim kohesif yang sangat efisien dalam menjalankan bisnis.

Xendit merupakan perusahaan pertama Anda yang mendapat dukungan pemodal ventura. Seperti apa ide awal Xendit?

Ketika kami memulai Xendit, saya melihat beberapa hal yang terjadi di negara lain. Terdapatcelah sejarah di mana perusahaan yang telah berkembang akan menentukan teknologi dan bisnis untuk 15 hingga 20 tahun ke depan. Mereka menetapkan aturan tentang cara kerja teknologi. Oleh karena itu, saya ingin pulang dan membangun infrastruktur serta menetapkan aturan dengan cara yang baik untuk Indonesia dan Asia Tenggara selama 20 tahun ke depan.

Ini benar-benar hal yang menyenangkan. Saya melihat hal ini seperti kita sedang membangun jalan beraspal yang dulunya adalah jalan tanah. Kami sedang membangun infrastruktur, sehingga bisnis lain dapat berkembang di atas platform ini.

Sebagian besar perjalanan hidup Anda terjadi di luar Indonesia. Selain karena potensi, apa yang mendorong Anda untuk membangun bisnis yang berfokus di negara ini? Apa yang membuat Anda yakin bisa menaklukkan pasar Indonesia?

Saya memiliki darah Indonesia. Meskipun tidak tumbuh besar di negara ini, saya menghabiskan sebagian besar masa dewasa di sini. Sebenarnya ini adalah passion saya untuk membangun sesuatu di Indonesia, dan segala sesuatunya mendukung. Sepanjang perjalanan, saya juga menemukan beberapa teman baik yang mau bersama-sama berkembang. Mungkin bukan menaklukkan, karena saya tidak semata-mata berpikir akan menang. Kami hanya melakukan hal yang sangat kami sukai. Semua bermula dari passion.

Di tahun ini, Xendit berhasil mencapai status unicorn. Pernahkah Anda berfikir bisa sampai pada titik ini?

Menurut saya “unicorn” atau valuasi adalah indikator yang lemah untuk setiap nilai yang dapat kita berikan kepada dunia, jadi tidak pernah terpikirkan sebelumnya untuk menjadi unicorn.

Saya cenderung memikirkan apakah kita dapat membuat sesuatu yang berskala untuk menghadirkan dampak positif bagi jutaan orang selama 10 hingga 20 tahun ke depan. Jika hal itu terjadi, maka valuasi pasti akan mengikuti.

Saya tidak pernah benar-benar peduli dengan status unicorn, dan pandangan itu masih sama. Saya lebih memikirkan apakah kita mampu memberi nilai kepada pelanggan, karena itu yang terpenting. Jika kita sudah berada di jalur yang tepat, segala sesuatu yang lain akan mengikuti. Valuasi tetap menjadi satu hal yang harus dipikirkan, tetapi bukan sebagai indikator pencapaian atau sesuatu yang harus dikejar. Hal itu hanya bagian dari bisnis. Saya menghabiskan sebagian besar waktu saya untuk memikirkan produk, pelanggan, dan tim di Xendit.

Menurut Anda, apa hal yang paling esensial untuk membangun keberlanjutan sebuah perusahaan di industri teknologi?

Sederhana saja, semuanya (teknologi, produk, penjualan) bergantung pada orang-orang yang mengerjakannya. Semuanya merupakan cerminan. Bagi saya, yang terpenting adalah membangun organisasi yang dapat menarik dan mempertahankan orang-orang yang tepat. Produk memang penting, tapi fungsi tersebut datang dari orang yang membangunnya, sama halnya dengan penjualan dan layanan pelanggan.

Saya menghabiskan banyak waktu untuk memikirkan organisasi, orang-orang di dalamnya, budaya yang kita jalani, cara kita membuat keputusan. Setelah semua hal sudah dilakukan dengan benar, segala sesuatu yang lain, bahkan jika saya tidak mengontrol pengambilan keputusan, akan berjalan dengan baik.

Budaya adalah apa yang bisa menarik dan mempertahankan pekerja dalam jangka panjang. Bukan semata-mata tentang tenis meja dan makanan, dimana kami menyediakan hal itu. Hal yang lebih penting terkait pengambilan keputusan, tim yang Anda bangun, bagaimana caranya menyingkirkan politik dalam organisasi, proses rekrutmen, pemberian kompensasi, dan sebagainya. Budaya dibangun atas jawaban dari pertanyaan-pertanyaan besar ini.

Sementara pekerja menjadi aset yang paling berharga di Xendit, apakah Anda punya pendekatan khusus dalam proses rekrutmen perusahaan?

Anda familiar dengan istilah underdog yang mau bekerja keras? Banyak dari kita tidak datang dari “sesuatu”, tetapi kita memiliki sesuatu untuk dibuktikan kepada dunia dan kami senang bekerja keras. Kami sangat peduli dengan budaya dan bagaimana kami membangun dan memelihara organisasi.

Jika harus memecahnya menjadi beberapa bagian, yang pertama adalah kecocokan budaya. Di dalamnya termasuk pekerja keras, ramah, membantu, tanpa politik, atau hal-hal berbau underdog. Selanjutnya, etos kerja. Kami menyadari fakta bahwa banyak orang yang masih belum paham betul tentang pembayaran. Di Xendit, kami menyediakan segalanya untuk dipelajari. Selain itu, kami juga menerapkan “Trial Day” sebagai bagian dari proses rekrutmen. Hal ini mungkin tidak ada di sebagian besar perusahaan. Ada satu hari dimana kami meminta Anda untuk bekerja bersama menyelesaikan isu yang nyata. Alih-alih diwawancarai, kandidat punya kesempatan untuk mewawancarai tim Xendit. Dengan begitu, mereka akan tahu bagaimana rasanya bekerja di Xendit.

Tantangan seperti apa yang Anda hadapi dalam perjalanan bisnis selama ini?

Ada banyak sekali tantangan, salah satu yang tersulit adalah rekrutmen ketika perusahaan masih kecil. Jauh sebelum menjadi perusahaan besar dengan bisnis bereputasi tinggi, tidak ada yang tahu siapa Anda. Kami mengembangkan model dimana kami mempekerjakan sekelompok teman. Sepuluh karyawan pertama kami sebenarnya adalah beberapa regu yang diberi kantor untuk mengembangkan produk. Dalam perhitungan saya, mungkin satu atau dua akan tinggal, kenyataannya, seluruh tim berjumlah 12 orang mau bergabung. Selama beberapa tahun pertama, teknisi awal kami adalah teman sepermainan. Kami mwmiliki tujuan yang kuat untuk mempekerjakan sekumpulan lingkaran pertemanan di mana saja, itu menjadi awal pembentukan tim kami di beberapa negara.

Xendit mengembangkan infrastruktur pembayaran dan telah hadir di Indonesia dan Filipina. Seperti apa Anda melihat potensi pasar serta peluang ekspansi ke depannya?

Jika kita melihat sisi pembayaran atau pembayaran merchant, masih terlalu dini. Persentase pembayaran digital Indonesia masih kurang dari 10% dari total PDB dibandingkan China atau AS yang mendekati 10-15%. Saya rasa kita masih memiliki peluang besar, masih ada ruang untuk pertumbuhan besar yang tersisa di setiap sudut.

Saya melihatnya seperti ini, peluang di depan kita lebih besar daripada peluang yang ada selama ini. Tempat ini sangat menarik dan kami berada dalam posisi yang sangat baik untuk menjadi pemain pertama atau kedua teratas di Asia Tenggara.

Saya menemukan sebuah laman berisi tulisan-tulisan Anda. Apakah itu sekadar hobi atau anda memiliki kegiatan lain untuk mengisi waktu luang?

Sesungguhnya, saya menyimpan itu sebagai catatan untuk diri saya sendiri. Sebagian besar yang saya tulis adalah hal-hal yang saat itu saya yakini dan saya ingin melihat apakah hal itu terbukti beberapa tahun kemudian. Hal ini juga untuk mengukur diri dan melihat apakah saya membuat keputusan yang tepat. Alasan lainnya adalah, kebanyakan orang cenderung menanyakan pertanyaan yang sama kepada saya dan jawabannya selalu sama. Saya pikir, jika ditulis, orang bisa membaca dengan mudah dan pengetahuan itu bisa menyebar lebih cepat.

Di Xendit, kami sering berkumpul, mengadakan wisata, dan bepergian bersama. Kami sangat menikmati kebersamaan satu sama lain bahkan di luar tempat kerja. Itu juga cara kami membangun koneksi.

Ada sebuah fenomena di industri teknologi, dimana para founders mulai mengambil peran sebagai investor dalam pasar. Bagaimana pandangan Anda akan hal ini? Sebagai founder, apakah itu sebuah kewajiban atau memang naluri untuk berinvestasi?

Menurut saya, kewajibannya tidak harus dengan berinvestasi, tetapi kewajibannya adalah membantu. Sepertinya ukan hanya founders, mereka memang lebih disorot oleh meedia. Setiap karyawan di sebuah perusahaan startup, juga mereka yang telah membangun bisnis memiliki kewajiban atau setidaknya keinginan untuk meneruskannya. Adalah hal yang menyenangkan bisa membantu pengusaha baru yang mencoba mencari cara untuk mengumpulkan uang, mengurus hierarki perusahaan, atau menemukan product-market fit.

Satu hal yang saya amati ketika saya tinggal di AS adalah, Silicon Valley, salah satu hal terbaik yang pernah ada, adalah kebebasan informasi yang berkualitas tinggi di antara masyarakatnya. Sedangkan di Asia, ketika seseorang memiliki ide bagus, secara tradisional, ia akan menyimpannya sendiri didasari rasa takut akan idenya ditiru atau dicuri. Rasa keharusan untuk memiliki tinggi. Saya ingin budaya itu berubah menjadi budaya yang bisa lebih berbagi alih-alih menyimpan ide untuk diri sendiri.

Kewajiban pendiri adalah membantu pendiri lainnya. Investasi datang sebagai produk sampingan, saya mencoba melakukan investasi sesedikit mungkin karena saya mencintai pekerjaan normal saya. Saya pikir Berinvestasi bisa agak mengganggu. Saya sering melakukannya untuk Xendit atau atas nama Xendit. Ini pendekatan yang sangat berbeda dari pendiri lainnya.

Sebagai startup pertama dari Indonesia yang lulus program YCombinator, bagaimana Anda melihat peran akselerator bagi startup tahap awal?

Kami adalah perusahaan Indonesia pertama di YCombinator dan saya bangga akan hal itu. YC sangat membantu untuk perusahaan tahap awal. Saya tidak tahu semua akselerator, jadi saya tidak bisa berbicara atas setiap akselerator. Satu hal yang bisa saya sampaikan, YC adalah akselerator yang sangat efektif. Seperti halnya mengurus hal-hal yang berurusan dengan tekanan bergaul bersama perusahaan terbaik di dunia. Selain itu, YC memberikan saran-saran apik, karena dijalankan oleh orang-orang yang sudah terbukti dalam membangun bisnis sebelumnya. Lalu, YC telah membangun jaringan terbaik; perusahaan ternama akan menarik investor ternama dan sebaliknya.

Xendit menjadi startup Indonesia pertama di program YCombinator

Dalam hal akselerator, saya pikir yang paling penting adalah pengusaha harus bertanya pada diri sendiri, ‘apa yang benar-benar saya butuhkan?’ dan ‘apakah program ini menyediakannya?’ Tidak semua akselerator bisa piawai untuk memberi saran dan mampu memberi Anda investor bernilai miliaran dolar. Semua itu tergantung pada kebutuhan pendiri dan kualitas akselerator.

Sebagai pebisnis berpengalaman, apa yang bisa Anda bagikan tentang perjuangan dan pertarungan di arena bisnis untuk para tech enthusiasts di luar sana?

Ada tiga hal yang bisa saya sampaikan. Pertama, temukan product-market fit. Sebagian besar pengusaha sudah memikirkan produk dan berharap mereka bisa menjualnya. Namun, dalam perjalanan untuk mendapatkan kesesuaian pasar produk, lebih sering Anda jatuh cinta dengan masalah pelanggan dan Anda merasakan dorongan untuk menyelesaikannya. Itu salah satu cara terbaik untuk menemukan kecocokan pasar produk.

Selanjutnya, sepuluh orang pertama di perusahaan akan menentukan budaya untuk ribuan orang berikutnya. Saya melihat hal-hal yang terjadi sekarang di Xendit, yang tidak dapat saya kendalikan lagi. Karena kami tidak mengontrol apa yang dilakukan seseorang dalam tim kecil sekarang karena kami ratusan orang besar. Budaya menyebar dan mereplikasi dirinya sendiri. Namun, sepertinya tidak cukup banyak orang yang sadar tentang hal itu sejak dini.

Yang ketiga, dalam hal perjuangan dan pertarungan, carilah mentor Anda. Dalam kasus saya, saya memiliki mentor untuk masing-masing kategori, 2 tahun ke depan, 5 tahun ke depan, dan 10 tahun ke depan. Menurut saya ini sangat membantu dalam perjalanan bisnis. Mentor 2 tahun dapat memberi saya gambaran tentang apa yang harus saya lakukan besok, mentor sepuluh tahun dapat mempertanyakan hal-hal seperti “Pastikan Anda membuat keputusan besar yang tepat!”, “Di industri mana Anda ingin membangun startup?” . Kemudian, mentor lima tahun ke depan dapat memberi Anda celah di antara keduanya dalam hal rencana untuk lima tahun ke depan dan seterusnya. Saya selalu berusaha sebaik mungkin untuk mempertahankan tiga kategori mentor ini.

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Artikel asli dalam bahasa Inggris, diterjemahkan oleh Kristin Siagian

Despite Xendit’s Unicorn Status, Moses Lo Still Concentrates on Building Organizational Fundamentals

November 26, 2021Englishfintech, mastermind-en, moses lo, unicorn, Xendit, ycombinatorKristin Siagian

This article is a part of DailySocial’s Mastermind Series, featuring innovators and leaders in Indonesia’s tech industry sharing their stories and point of view.

It is undebatable that working culture has a powerful influence on people when it comes to a decision to take a new job at one company. This is also what Moses Lo, Xendit’s Founder and CEO, grasped as he was working for a company or starting a new one. At Xendit, he always makes sure that the organizational fundamentals are met. He focused on building the internals in order for the company to better serve the externals as customers.

It was all about passion for Lo when he started this business, to create something that can drive the market for over 20 years. He built a gateway for payment to simplify and secure business transactions. With this idea, Xendit has become the first Indonesian startup to be accepted into the Y Combinator program.

Lo has already been exposed to technology at a young age. Growing up, he became interested in finance and banking stuff, along with the tech background, which led him to fintech. He graduated as an honor student of commerce, information system management, and finance at the University of New South Wales. Continuing his business saga, he attended Berkeley for a master’s degree in business. He had his experience working with two of the best companies, teaching him all that matters to enter the tech industry.

27-year-old Lo started Xendit in 2015, the company has grown multiples since then and is listed as an Indonesian unicorn this year. Today, Xendit’s infrastructure has been widely used by companies in Indonesia, the Philippines, and Southeast Asia.

Here’s an excerpt of our discussion with Moses Lo, Xendit’s front person, about his vision and achievements in the tech industry.

When did you start pursuing a career in the tech industry?

I have wanted to be in the tech industry since I was 13 or 14 years old. It involves a lot of playing computer games and building computers. So, I always wanted to do something about technology. Growing up, I got really interested in finance and banking stuff, then, I studied Information Systems in the University, which led me to fintech today. Afterward, I worked with Boston Consulting Group (BCG) and Amazon for a while before deciding to start my own company.

What was it like, your life before Xendit?

I come from a family of entrepreneurs. The reason I went to BCG was that they were really good at teaching you similar skills in business. They taught me how to think, how to present information well, how to speak to senior people, those who were older, and much more important than me. Those are really useful kits.

Then, I went to Amazon for a short period of time. Amazon, compared to the other companies, competed really hard for every inch of territory that they got. They won e-commerce in the US, they’re winning cloud services everywhere. They’re really good at this competitive space and I wanted to learn in a company that is very good at competing. In the meantime, I also learn how to build a scalable startup culture and how to build a very efficient cohesive team in executing business.

Xendit happens to be your first venture capital-backed company. Actually, what was the idea behind Xendit’s creation?

When we were starting Xendit, I noticed some things that happened in other countries. There is this small window of history where the companies that are built will define technology and business for the next 15 to 20 years. They set the rules for how technology works. Therefore, I wanted to come home and build infrastructure and set rules in a way that would be good for Indonesia and Southeast Asia for the next 20 years.

This is really exciting. I think of it like we’re building paved roads that once were dirt roads. We’re laying down infrastructure, therefore others can build businesses on top.

You’ve spent most of your life not in Indonesia. Aside from its great potential, what drives you to build a business in this country? How can you ensure to conquer this market?

I am, myself, half Indonesian. Although I didn’t spend most of my childhood here, I spent most of my adulthood in this country. It is more like my passion to build something in Indonesia, it just makes sense. Along the journey, I also found some good friends I really wanted to build with. I didn’t think we were gonna conquer. I didn’t think we knew we were gonna win. It was just something we were so passionate about. It started out with passion above anything else.

This year, Xendit has achieved unicorn status. Have you ever thought about Xendit being a unicorn before?

I think “unicorn” or valuation is a lagging indicator of value that we can provide the world, so I never thought of us becoming a unicorn.

I thought about whether we can make something that scales to have a positive impact for millions and millions of people over the next 10 to 20 years. And if we can make it, valuation will certainly follow.

I never really cared about unicorn status, and the thought remains. What I really care about is, are we able to provide value to customers, because that’s what matters most. If we stay on that true path, everything else will follow. I do think about valuation, but not as a mark for some milestones or something to chase. It is just part of the business. I spend most of my time thinking about products, customers, and Xendit people.

What do you think is the most essential value a company should have in order to reach sustainability in this tech industry?

It’s really simple, everything (tech, product, sales) comes down to people. It’s all a reflection of our people. For me, the most important thing is to build an organization that can attract and retain the right people. Product is important, yes, but it is a function of the people who build it, it also applies to sales and customer service.

I spent a lot of my time thinking about the organization itself, the people in it, the culture we breathe, the way we make decisions. Once we get that right, everything else, even if I didn’t control the decision-making down the line, will work out.

Culture is what attracts and retains people in the long run. It’s not only about table tennis and food, which we have. It’s mainly about decision making, the sailors you build, how you get rid of politics in organization, the recruitment process, the compensation settlement and so on. Culture was built upon the answers of all these kinds of big questions.

Since Xendit’s most valuable asset is its people, do you have a certain approach while recruiting people?

Do you know underdogs that were willing to work hard? A lot of us do not come from the best “something”, but we have something to prove to the world and we’re happy to work hard. We really care about the culture and how we build and maintain the organization.

If I have to break it down into parts, the first one is culture fit. It includes hardworking, friendly, helpful, no politics, or the underdog’s stuff. Furthermore, the work ethic. We are aware of the fact that a lot of people don’t know anything about the payment. In Xendit, we have everything for you to learn. Also, we have what we call Trial Day as part of our recruitment process. I think this one is not applied in most companies. We’ll have you work with us for a whole day, with real problems. Instead of being interviewed, they will have the opportunity to interview Xendit people. This way they will know how it feels to work at Xendit.

What kind of challenges do you encounter along the journey?

Lots of challenges, one of the hardest ones is recruiting when you’re small. It’s long before you’re a big company with a highly reputable business. No one knows who you are. We developed a model where we hired a group of friends. Our first ten hires were actually a group of friends that were given an office for engineering. In my calculation, maybe one or two will stay, but instead, all 12 people joined. For the first few years, all our engineers were basically two groups of friends. We’re very purposeful for hiring pockets of friends wherever we can, that is also the very beginning of our team in some countries.

Xendit has been providing payment infrastructure and already exists in Indonesia and the Philippines. How do you see the market potential and possibility to expand?

When we look at payment or the merchant payments side, we’re still quite premature. The Indonesian digital payment percentage is still less than 10% of the total GDP compared to China or the US, which is closer to 10-15%. I think we have multiple orders of magnitude, there’s still massive growth left in every corner.

The way I look at it, the opportunity in front of us is bigger than the opportunity that we’ve seen so far. This is a pretty exciting place to be and we’re in a very good position to be the top one or two players in Southeast Asia.

I found a website containing some of your writings. Should I assume you like to write in your free time or do you have other kinds of hobbies?

The reason I did those is, I kept it more as a note for myself. Mostly, I write things that I believe at that time and I wanna see if that’s still true a few years later. It’s to measure myself and see if I make the right decision. Another reason is, a lot of people tend to ask me the same questions and I noticed that I’m answering the same question over and over again. I figured, if I just put it out there, people can simply read and that knowledge can spread faster.

At Xendit, we hung out a lot together, we did travel, trips, and everywhere. We really enjoy each other’s company even outside the workplace. That’s also how we build connections.

There’s a phenomenon in the tech industry where Founders are starting to enter the market as an investor. What do you think of this? Do you think as a Founder, you are also obliged or just naturally grow interested in investing?

I think the obligation is not necessarily to invest, but the obligation is to help. I don’t think it’s just the founders, they may have a lot of press and the credit. I think any early employee at a company, those who’ve built businesses have an obligation or at least a desire to pay it forward. Something I really love doing is helping new entrepreneurs trying to figure out how to raise money, deal stuff with the boards, or find product-market fit.

One thing I observed when I lived in the U.S. was, Silicon Valley, one of the best things has, is the freedom of high-quality information between people. Whereas in Asia, when we have a good idea, traditionally, we want to keep it to ourselves because we’re scared someone will copy us and take it away. We try to own things. I want that culture to change into a more sharing culture instead of keeping ideas for yourself.

The obligation is for founders to help other founders. Investing comes as a byproduct, I try to do as little investment as possible because I love my normal job. I think Investing can be somewhat distracting. I do it a lot for Xendit or on behalf of Xendit. It’s quite a different approach from other founders.

As one of the first Indonesian startup graduates in YCombinator, what do you think is the important role of accelerator programs to early-stage startups?

We’re the first Indonesian company in YCombinator, so I’m proud of that. YC is extremely helpful for early-stage companies. I don’t know every accelerator so I cannot say for every accelerator. But I can say that YC is an extremely effective accelerator. To begin with, in terms of dealing with the pressure cooker of hanging out with the best company on earth. Also, YC gives some of the best advice, as it is run by people who actually built a business before. Another thing is YC has built the best network effect; the best companies attract the best investors and vice versa.

Xendit is the first Indonesian company in YCombinator

In terms of accelerators, I think all entrepreneurs have to ask themselves, ‘what do I really need?’ and ‘does it provide that to me?’ Not all accelerators can be really good at pressure cookers and capable of bringing you the billion-dollar investors. It all depends on the founder’s need and the accelerator’s quality.

As an experienced entrepreneur, what can you share about the struggle and survival story for those tech enthusiasts out there wanting to build their own legacy?

I have three things to say. First, find product-market fit. Most entrepreneurs already have a product in mind and hope that they can sell it. However, on the way to get product-market fit, more often you fall in love with the customer problem and you feel the urge to solve it. That’s one of the best ways to find product-market fit.

Next, your first ten people will define the culture for the next thousands. I see things that happened now at Xendit, which I have no control over anymore. As we don’t control what someone does in a small team now that we’re hundreds of people big. The culture propagates and replicates itself. Hence, I don’t think people are conscious enough about that early on.

The third, in terms of struggle and survival, is to find yourself the mentors. In my case, I have a mentor for each category, 2 years ahead, 5 years ahead, and 10 years ahead. I think that’s really helpful in my journey. The 2-year mentor can give me a sense of what I need to do tomorrow, the ten-year mentor can say “Make sure you make the right big decision!”, “Which industries do you want to build the startup in?”. Then, the five-year-ahead mentor can give you a little in between of both in terms of my plan for the next five years and so on. I always try my best to maintain these three buckets of mentors.

Donald Wihardja: From Business Intelligence to Engineer the Tech Investment Ecosystem in Indonesia

September 8, 2021EnglishDonald Wihardja, mastermind-en, Mdi Ventures, tech ecosystem, tech industry, tech investment, venture capitalKristin Siagian

This article is a part of DailySocial’s Mastermind Series, featuring innovators and leaders in Indonesia’s tech industry sharing their stories and point of view.

Donald Wihardja has more than 20 years of experience in applying technology for various industries, from telco to banking to web startup, as a manager, advisor, consultant, investment manager, and entrepreneur in Indonesia. He believes in order to engineer the tech investment ecosystem, one must have enough knowledge and experience in doing tech business.

He started the journey with a misstep. He left Silicon Valley in 1995 believing Indonesia was ready to experience a tech boom, which eventually he realized that it was still a long way to go from that moment to this stage we are now. However, he managed to pull the trigger and made his way into the tech industry in Indonesia.

Donald has expertise in data warehouses or what we now call big data. He is capable of using data to keep track of business performance and make intelligent strategic decisions. He learned how to use technology to transform business. That’s the beginning of his shifting career path from electrical engineering computer scientist to a business consultant more than a tech consultant in terms of programming.

He entered the investment industry through a Private Equity (PE) company and learned enough to finally quit and started his own Venture Capital (VC), Convergence, with Adrian Li. Over five years of being a VC’s partner, he discovered an opportunity to channel his investment style. It is through MDI Venture, where his concern will not only lie in multiplying the company’s money but also creating opportunities for business synergy under the Telkom Group.

DailySocial had an opportunity to interview Donald who was at that time actually on sabbatical and currently staying in the States to discuss Indonesia’s tech investment ecosystem. He shared a lot of his thoughts on how to create a better environment in our country’s tech industry through the paragraphs below.

Donald Wihardja believes in order to engineer the tech investment ecosystem, one must have enough knowledge and experience in doing the business

You have more than 20 years of experience in applying technology for various industries. How was it started?

I started the journey with a misstep. I left the State in 1995 believing Indonesia was ready to experience a tech boom, which happened in the US around that time. I never thought I had to wait for 20 years and had to be a part of its development. However, I always believe Indonesia will be the next technology hub and already on its way although with merely slow realization.

In fact, it takes literally a hundred years for Silicon Valley to get where it is now. The original Silicon Valley entrepreneur or Venture Capital investing in short Model-T. Cars without custom build or mass produce can make a successful venture a hundred years later. Banker started investing in tech ventures and created a success story. More and more technologists are getting rich and eventually took part in the investment industry.

The biggest issue with technology is the tech risk. Is this a real one? Is this just an illusion? Are you ready or not? Investing is all about the disparity between knowing personal private information and public information. The more you know, the less risky the investment. It is actually quite simple. If you know the ingredients to build a successful startup, you will know where to pour your money on.

There is this concept that Indonesia will be a significant tech ecosystem, at least in Southeast Asia. I already miss the tech boom in the US, my job is to build the current boat so I didn’t miss this one.

How was your first attempt to engineer the startup/tech industry in Indonesia?

I saw my journey going on here. I look back at my job in the States, at that time we just freshly came out of recession. Raises are slow and I was impatient. I know and I was told if I come back I will make a good manager in no time. That is true somehow.

My first job in Indonesia was as a programmer for Hewlett Packard (HP) customer support system. At that time, I’m extending my knowledge to business consulting and rejoining the company as a project manager. My job is basically to solve business problems and my product expertise is business intelligence and data warehouse or big data. This gives me exposure to tech business and problems.

I learn how to use data to keep track of business performance and make intelligent strategic decisions. That is the product I’m selling back then. From that experience, I get the technical side of how to use technology to transform business.

That is how Donald the electrical engineering computer scientist ended up being a business consultant more than a tech consultant in terms of programming.

In 1998, a recession happened. All of my fellow consultants got shipped up around the world. I refuse to leave, I rather build my own tech software development company with my current partner. Another thing, we also tried to build something that looked like Tokopedia back in ’98. We all know it didn’t work out because there is not enough market and users are not ready.

From that crisis, I learned that when the other side of the world has upgraded and we are one generation behind in terms of data and connectivity. Consumers at that time were too far behind, they could barely browse the web. People who can use it are very small compared to the population. Everything is too slow. This is a problem we cannot just let slide.

You have an educational background in electrical engineering and computer science, then ended up being a business consultant. What drives you to enter the investment industry?

In 2005, I got invited to join a PE (by the time I have my own programming company and stuff), named Quvat. I learned how to fundraise for a company with all the paperwork regarding investment agreements. I am grateful to work at a company with a very educational culture. I had to learn subjects outside of my work field in order to improve my quality. This is how I know what I want to do.

I have my first project to build fiber optic cable, allowing Indonesia to catch up with two generations of tech. During that time, Indonesia finally experienced the first rush of the real full bandwidth. We actually make bandwidth in Indonesia cheaper by 90%. Then, people are getting interested and willing to pay more. After all this time, Indonesia is finally ready.

In time, I realize that Quvat will never invest in a startup. That is the difference between PE and VC. If my future is to be tied with the tech revolution, I should not be in a PE. I should either be in a startup or a VC. After a long time with Quvat, I was asked “Where do you want to go from here? What do you want us to do for your career?” and I said I want to quit and join the startup. I quit Quvat to join Indomog.

I was a CTO back then with Indomog. What I do is help the company build its business model. One of the biggest issues at that time is that everything in tech is free. Startups cannot make money in Indonesia because there is no way to get paid. It’s easy in the US, they have credit cards, but here it didn’t go that way. Therefore, we build a cash payment infrastructure, specifically around games.

That is what the Indomog thesis is. However, from day one, we know the thesis is to build more than a payment solution for games, but for commerce. One thing I realize, if there is going to be a tech boom in Indonesia, I need to help solve the thesis of the problem. And with the startup, I choose to solve the payment issue.

Another problem arises, Indonesian startups did not have VC funding because we don’t know how to raise money from investors. Also, there’s not enough investor awareness in Indonesia either. While doing my job in Indomog, I also helped few other startups as I have extensive knowledge on writing convertible notes and so on. This is when I know the next problem to solve is in the VC. And when Adrian Li came to me with the idea of Convergence, I decided to join.

I joined Convergence to capitalize on the opportunity that we need for venture capital in Indonesia. There are a lot fewer VCs than people making startups back then. I’m getting too old to be a programmer. Also, Quvat has prepared me to be a partner. By that time, my experience in Quvat and my years’ building startups got me enough knowledge to be a partner in a VC.

During my time in a VC, I also realized how immature the Indonesian VC ecosystem is. That is why, with fellow VCs in the field, we created Amvesindo. It is actually a lobbying group of PMVs and VCs and a bridge to the government.

How can you describe the transition from Convergence as a Venture Capital to MDI Ventures as a Corporate Venture Capital?

In Convergence, we learn how to invest as a minority shareholder. We see and we believe the founder knows better than the VC in terms of running the company. Furthermore, we don’t take over the company. We provide them with growth capital. This is a high-risk business, therefore, we need to find the right asset and only invest in a company we can really grow.

As I started as a business consultant, my style has always been more like a mentor. That is why, when the opportunity arises from MDI, I think that fits me better. As a CVC, MDI does not only have a money-multiple mandate. Does it also push on how the startup can create revenue for Telkom? That forces the team to have a synergy division whose job is actually to vouch for these startups to work together with Telkom. It also allows me to have an active role in growing the startup.

Telkom, on the other hand, has generated more revenue from its corporate business than the amount poured for investment. Therefore, how much capital gain I generate in investment wouldn’t make that much difference to the group. What they actually need is what kind of innovation and digitalization can we bring to the table. This is where I realize I have come to a company where they are actually telling me to stop just worrying about money-multiple and start by creating business opportunities for startups. Indeed, not exactly how the company translates it, but I choose to interpret it that way.

I want to take the digitalization requirement in Telkom and deliver that using the solution proven by startups. That is the work I want to do. Therefore, we focused on the startup in the later stage. As the stage gets later, the startup becomes more stable and able to deliver revenue and synergy with Telkom. MDI alone has multiple funds, we also have a fund for earlier stages. However, in each company we invest, we tried to build the relationship and synergy with Telkom. How can we comfortably make the continuous investment, in a way to engineer the growth of the company?

Recently, your portfolio in MDI, RunSystem, has announced its IPO. I’m interested to know your perspective about IPO, is it really an ideal exit?

In MDI, we have two KPIs, money multiple and synergy value. In terms of CVC, we are focused more on synergy as the impact is greater. However, one day we’ll be facing this question, “How much money you’ve brought back to the company?”. In order to answer, we need a way to prove that we have delivered two times more than the money we’re given. More importantly, we can engineer exit in investment profitably. For what success a synergy can bring if the company you invest in is dead. I will no longer be trusted with money.

In order to balance these two, we create a system to prove our estimated value in each portfolio. Furthermore, we have successfully generated exit, bringing real cash to the company. One of Telkom Group’s subsidiaries with the highest performing net income. That is about the exit.

The ideal exit is what multiples more money, but IPO is an important exit. It will be a way to prove the maturity of the Indonesian tech ecosystem as the information will go public. The more mature the Indonesian investing ecosystem worldwide, the more investors will come, and the faster we will grow. IPO is the barometer for the Indonesian healthy investment ecosystem. Although IPO might only have been done by 10%-20% of startups with a good track record.

In terms of paper, Indonesia has many startups with overly high valuations and still rising. However, what is value means if there’s no way to exit. It is why Indonesia needs to create a more successful IPO story, in order to prove that we have an investable tech ecosystem. MDI has exited through IPO two times, in Australia and Japan. With RunSystem finally announcing, MDI is already on the right track. Also, we’ll have several announcements related to this matter in the near future.

During those years of experience, what kind of challenges have you had along the way?

The biggest challenge during 20 years of experience is in public confidence. It’s hard to make people believe in the Indonesian tech ecosystem when we barely can browse the internet. Imagine this country will be an investment destination or even a tech destination, and our tech will make a significant impact. When we can build confidence, it will have a good multiplier effect.

Thus, ensuring the digital transformation to have a big impact is very important in order to get enough support from all the stakeholders in the country. For the digital startup ecosystem in Indonesia to grow steadily, we need to understand and fight this together. This is not the work for a single person. Collaborate to fabricate the vision of the Indonesian future, it has to be developed and marketed to enrich the Indonesian ecosystem with competition and variety.

Anything you want to say to those tech enthusiasts trying to make their way to be a part of the Indonesian tech ecosystem?

This is the right time, especially with the pandemic and stuff. There’s a saying “Don’t let a good crisis go to waste”. The crisis is indeed the time to showcase your ability. This is the right moment to join the tech revolution in your own way as a VC, corporate, founder, or else. Because never before has Indonesia been more ready for digital transformation. We’re nowhere near the end. Make us more startups and more mature VC with more mature investors. In whatever field you are interested, join the game. It’s a call to action.

You said you’ve come back to Indonesia at the wrong time. Did you ever regret it? Do you still have something you want to do but have no chance to do so?

Actually, my current project is how we can create digital transformation in the ecosystem backed by many state-owned enterprises. How can we use the existing customers to be digitized by startup players? We can identify which digital ecosystem is ready to develop based on the business opportunity captive market in the state-owned enterprise but also powered by the startup’s proven solutions. Thus, I can level up as a CVC which not only introduces startups to the Telkom group but also creates opportunities outside what the startup or Telkom’s thought to create more impactful innovation.